E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Thin feeler gauge down the perimeter of the piston and see if you can fish anything out. For anything that's visible you can tape a plastic straw into a vac cleaner pipe.
You could also try a thin smear of grease on the cyl wall, to catch debris as you turn the crankshaft over by hand.
Whatever you do, keep going until nothing more comes out
You could also try a thin smear of grease on the cyl wall, to catch debris as you turn the crankshaft over by hand.
Whatever you do, keep going until nothing more comes out
1998 B12 5.7 ekat
1972 3.0 CSL
2002 B10 V8S Touring (sold)
1981 635CSi (sold)
1972 3.0 CSL
2002 B10 V8S Touring (sold)
1981 635CSi (sold)
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Just one additional comment to the advice already given.
Are you sure it was 'sand' blasted. Worth trying to established what was actually used, and if possible grain size, as this will give you an idea of what you should see around the piston and what the potential issues of particulate not removed will be.
Hope all goes well.
Dave
Are you sure it was 'sand' blasted. Worth trying to established what was actually used, and if possible grain size, as this will give you an idea of what you should see around the piston and what the potential issues of particulate not removed will be.
Hope all goes well.
Dave
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
So, long time no update, as per usual.
To cut a long story short, I found no serious accumulation of blast media on top of the rings, but I did find some light scoring in the bores instead. Bad times Significant enough for me to stop all work and expenditure and think about it for a while, which is what I've been doing.
Block clearly needs properly looking at; best cast a cylinder hone and crack on, worst case re-bore, oversize pistons etc etc - i.e. lots of risk of big expense in an as-yet-unknown engine rebuild. I'm out of time and goodwill from the mrs to work on the car, and to be honest I don't want to try and take my engine out on my drive in winter anyway, least of all when I'm learning how to do it as I go!
I've been through the whole cycle of denial/anger/grief/acceptance (therapists please feel free to step in at any point here ), got as far as writing a for sale advert but chickened out from listing it anywhere.
The car always needed some welding, bodywork and paint - that was always part of the plan and within the budget. As soon as it goes to the local guys doing that work, the engine's going to come out and be assessed by my local machine shop. Depending on what the remedial work to the engine and cost is, I may need to make some difficult decisions...
OEM oversize pistons are available but are a frightening price. Used blocks can probably be shipped over from the US where they're very common, as will be used pistons (noting that S52 pistons and Alpina pistons are not the same however...), but not a quick or economic option.
The car remains in great condition in many ways and is just such a fantastic looking thing - I am firmly back to the land of optimism and focussing on everything other than having potentially trashed my incredibly rare engine through a moment's inattention to cleaning!
Sympathy, encouragement and bright ideas gratefully accepted! No I'm not considering a B8 homage if the block is scrap!
To cut a long story short, I found no serious accumulation of blast media on top of the rings, but I did find some light scoring in the bores instead. Bad times Significant enough for me to stop all work and expenditure and think about it for a while, which is what I've been doing.
Block clearly needs properly looking at; best cast a cylinder hone and crack on, worst case re-bore, oversize pistons etc etc - i.e. lots of risk of big expense in an as-yet-unknown engine rebuild. I'm out of time and goodwill from the mrs to work on the car, and to be honest I don't want to try and take my engine out on my drive in winter anyway, least of all when I'm learning how to do it as I go!
I've been through the whole cycle of denial/anger/grief/acceptance (therapists please feel free to step in at any point here ), got as far as writing a for sale advert but chickened out from listing it anywhere.
The car always needed some welding, bodywork and paint - that was always part of the plan and within the budget. As soon as it goes to the local guys doing that work, the engine's going to come out and be assessed by my local machine shop. Depending on what the remedial work to the engine and cost is, I may need to make some difficult decisions...
OEM oversize pistons are available but are a frightening price. Used blocks can probably be shipped over from the US where they're very common, as will be used pistons (noting that S52 pistons and Alpina pistons are not the same however...), but not a quick or economic option.
The car remains in great condition in many ways and is just such a fantastic looking thing - I am firmly back to the land of optimism and focussing on everything other than having potentially trashed my incredibly rare engine through a moment's inattention to cleaning!
Sympathy, encouragement and bright ideas gratefully accepted! No I'm not considering a B8 homage if the block is scrap!
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Theres always options, can you feel the scores? the old rule of thumb is if you can't feel them on the bores with your finger nail you'll be ok. This is after a re hone
My B3S engine needed a full rebuild and 1 or 2 two of my bores were scored from swarf in the engine from the vanos unit shitting its pants. There no over size pistons for the 3.4 as its bored out as far as the block can go!! Its the same engine as yours basically but bored and stroked to 3.4. So my machine shop honed the block and you could see the scores on the block but not feel them with finger nail.
That was 55,000 miles ago and engine doesn't smoke and oil usage is well in spec, but i don't run it on 0-30w oil either. So it might not be as bad as you think. If you need an over bore i'd not get hung up on OEM Alpina pistons because you know the price is mental. You can get better quality aftermarket pistons made from your originals from JE, wossner etc They just copy the OEM piston and make them in plus size for you depending on how much of an over bore you need
Theres always a solution
My B3S engine needed a full rebuild and 1 or 2 two of my bores were scored from swarf in the engine from the vanos unit shitting its pants. There no over size pistons for the 3.4 as its bored out as far as the block can go!! Its the same engine as yours basically but bored and stroked to 3.4. So my machine shop honed the block and you could see the scores on the block but not feel them with finger nail.
That was 55,000 miles ago and engine doesn't smoke and oil usage is well in spec, but i don't run it on 0-30w oil either. So it might not be as bad as you think. If you need an over bore i'd not get hung up on OEM Alpina pistons because you know the price is mental. You can get better quality aftermarket pistons made from your originals from JE, wossner etc They just copy the OEM piston and make them in plus size for you depending on how much of an over bore you need
Theres always a solution
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Si you should nurse this car for a few beer tokens
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
I can feel them now, but yeah I'm really hoping that just a hone will suffice to smooth them out. Thanks for the info on aftermarket copies, I don't really know what to expect for them price-wise, but I'm glad you say they'd likely be cheaper than OEM.
Car goes in to the restorer at the start of April, it's all wrapped up for now and I'll keep the forum posted on its progress in time.
Car goes in to the restorer at the start of April, it's all wrapped up for now and I'll keep the forum posted on its progress in time.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Looks like this is making some progress:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPi_EMQon9t/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPi_EMQon9t/
B3 3.2 TOURING #062
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- Location: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Well spotted! It is coming home on a transporter tomorrow - but not because it's bust, just because it's out of MOT
Engine all fixed, rust sorted, none of it was as bad as I'd feared. I need to put a new tyre on one wheel and then see how it fares at MOT.
I've got loads of interesting pictures and details which will follow once I've got it back and given it a good going over.
Engine all fixed, rust sorted, none of it was as bad as I'd feared. I need to put a new tyre on one wheel and then see how it fares at MOT.
I've got loads of interesting pictures and details which will follow once I've got it back and given it a good going over.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
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- ALPINA
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:40 pm
- Location: Shropshire
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Great news! Look forward to seeing the photos and updates....
Paul
2013 F11 B5 BiTurbo Touring #135 - Alpina Blue
2017 F33 B4S BiTurbo Cabrio #235 - Tanzanite Blue
2013 F11 B5 BiTurbo Touring #135 - Alpina Blue
2017 F33 B4S BiTurbo Cabrio #235 - Tanzanite Blue
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
This update has been a long time coming! Lots of progress made, it all took ages but was worth the wait to get the right people working on it.
I bought the car with knowledge of some rust in the usual E36 spots, and had always planned to get it all sorted out so had booked in with a highly regarded local restoration outfit that have made a name for themselves sorting out ancient VW buses and beetles - so they know a lot about rust! My issue was that I also had a block still in the car with scratches to the cylinder bores - the top end of the engine had been removed by me and was in great condition just awaiting a way forward. I was about to start a new job so the prospect of removing the engine myself on my drive was a step too far.
The restorers who I wanted to do the work (Autostyl in Chacewater, Cornwall) were happy to take the block out first and take it to the local engine shop where the bore damage would be assessed and I'd find out what needed to be done to fix it. With the cost of the engine work a total unknown at this stage, and a queue of engines in work meaning mine wouldn't get instant attention, after the engine was out they were happy to the body resto work to an agreed budget and set of priorities - so helpful to take out some of the stress of a potential financial disaster zone of needing a rebore and 6 new oversized pistons...
Rust was certainly well established but by no means as bad as the worst that E36s have suffered. RHS sill was the worst, with rot having spread into the floor. It was all cut out and new metal fabbed and welded in. Key other areas were the LHS rear quarter that had a rust hole behind the arch above the bumper, and the lower lip of the boot aperture. Both all sorted out with new metal. They also put a new underbody coating on and sealed all the cavities to stop new rust starting/spreading. The budget ran out before getting to the wings, so it still has the originals fitted which are in a bad state at the bottom, but as they're just bolt on panels I can easily get them done in the future.
Meanwhile, the engine shop had turned their attention to mine and gave the verdict I'd been holding my breath for; scoring was very light and a cylinder hone was enough. PHEW! With it in bits they replaced the rings, timing chain, guides and of course gave it a new set of bottom end bearing shells. With the top end all removed and organised very carefully in empty takeaway boxes, they were happy to also reassemble and time the engine, saving me or the restorer from doing that job.
Everything then went back in, I helped out a bit with some of the less obvious vacuum lines (much easier having taken it all out and in twice already!) and we were a bit stumped for a while when it would run very nicely with partial throttle but wouldn't idle, but wasn't posting any engine codes to give us a steer. Rather obviously, this turned out to be the ICV which had furred up and got stuck - WD40 and a wiggle sorted it out a treat.
So number 77 lives on!
Obviously its run out of MOT, and has picked up some faults from being sat around for so long... The headlights have both stopped working, which must be a connection or earth snag since they've been taken out and refitted to get the engine out/in. I've also got an ASC light on the dash, knackered sensor possibly but I do wonder if a drive out might clear it up.
Almost there - I do hope I can sort these final niggles and get at least one cruise out to get an ice cream with the kids before the summer's out
I bought the car with knowledge of some rust in the usual E36 spots, and had always planned to get it all sorted out so had booked in with a highly regarded local restoration outfit that have made a name for themselves sorting out ancient VW buses and beetles - so they know a lot about rust! My issue was that I also had a block still in the car with scratches to the cylinder bores - the top end of the engine had been removed by me and was in great condition just awaiting a way forward. I was about to start a new job so the prospect of removing the engine myself on my drive was a step too far.
The restorers who I wanted to do the work (Autostyl in Chacewater, Cornwall) were happy to take the block out first and take it to the local engine shop where the bore damage would be assessed and I'd find out what needed to be done to fix it. With the cost of the engine work a total unknown at this stage, and a queue of engines in work meaning mine wouldn't get instant attention, after the engine was out they were happy to the body resto work to an agreed budget and set of priorities - so helpful to take out some of the stress of a potential financial disaster zone of needing a rebore and 6 new oversized pistons...
Rust was certainly well established but by no means as bad as the worst that E36s have suffered. RHS sill was the worst, with rot having spread into the floor. It was all cut out and new metal fabbed and welded in. Key other areas were the LHS rear quarter that had a rust hole behind the arch above the bumper, and the lower lip of the boot aperture. Both all sorted out with new metal. They also put a new underbody coating on and sealed all the cavities to stop new rust starting/spreading. The budget ran out before getting to the wings, so it still has the originals fitted which are in a bad state at the bottom, but as they're just bolt on panels I can easily get them done in the future.
Meanwhile, the engine shop had turned their attention to mine and gave the verdict I'd been holding my breath for; scoring was very light and a cylinder hone was enough. PHEW! With it in bits they replaced the rings, timing chain, guides and of course gave it a new set of bottom end bearing shells. With the top end all removed and organised very carefully in empty takeaway boxes, they were happy to also reassemble and time the engine, saving me or the restorer from doing that job.
Everything then went back in, I helped out a bit with some of the less obvious vacuum lines (much easier having taken it all out and in twice already!) and we were a bit stumped for a while when it would run very nicely with partial throttle but wouldn't idle, but wasn't posting any engine codes to give us a steer. Rather obviously, this turned out to be the ICV which had furred up and got stuck - WD40 and a wiggle sorted it out a treat.
So number 77 lives on!
Obviously its run out of MOT, and has picked up some faults from being sat around for so long... The headlights have both stopped working, which must be a connection or earth snag since they've been taken out and refitted to get the engine out/in. I've also got an ASC light on the dash, knackered sensor possibly but I do wonder if a drive out might clear it up.
Almost there - I do hope I can sort these final niggles and get at least one cruise out to get an ice cream with the kids before the summer's out
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
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- Location: Shropshire
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Great update - I've been following this with interest. Really glad to see it's on the road to recovery. The first cruise out with the roof down will be sweet!
Paul
2013 F11 B5 BiTurbo Touring #135 - Alpina Blue
2017 F33 B4S BiTurbo Cabrio #235 - Tanzanite Blue
2013 F11 B5 BiTurbo Touring #135 - Alpina Blue
2017 F33 B4S BiTurbo Cabrio #235 - Tanzanite Blue
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
wow just gone for it! you've done the hard bit now. the traction light might be the ecu. I had trouble on my old touring. I went to the ring once with no ABS working It was fine apart from this one time.......
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Result! well on the way to a great summer drive, Glad to hear all going forward.
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Great to see the progress on this one and looking forward to those "first drive" photos.
Have sent you a PM re the rust repairs too.
Have sent you a PM re the rust repairs too.
Currently:
1992 Alpina B2.5 #026, Lagoon Green with Parchment Cloth
Previously:
2013 BMW M135i 3dr, Mineral Grey with Red Leather
2001 Alpina B3 3.3 Coupe #170, Orient Blue with Grey Leather
2006 Z4MC, Silver Grey with Red Leather
2001 E46 330i Sport, Silver with Red Leather
1997 E36 323i SE Touring, Calypso Red with Grey Cloth
1992 Alpina B2.5 #026, Lagoon Green with Parchment Cloth
Previously:
2013 BMW M135i 3dr, Mineral Grey with Red Leather
2001 Alpina B3 3.3 Coupe #170, Orient Blue with Grey Leather
2006 Z4MC, Silver Grey with Red Leather
2001 E46 330i Sport, Silver with Red Leather
1997 E36 323i SE Touring, Calypso Red with Grey Cloth
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- Posts: 184
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:27 pm
- Location: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY
Fixed all the niggles and got the MOT booked on Thursday
ASC just needed its actuating cable attaching and tensioning - I'd tucked it well out of sight and the guys putting the engine in hadn't spotted it.
Headlights just needed new bulbs - so grateful for the simplicity of that!
Interior, wipers, engine trim and other odds and sods are all back in now, going to ring A-Plan tomorrow and then keep fingers crossed for Thursday.
ASC just needed its actuating cable attaching and tensioning - I'd tucked it well out of sight and the guys putting the engine in hadn't spotted it.
Headlights just needed new bulbs - so grateful for the simplicity of that!
Interior, wipers, engine trim and other odds and sods are all back in now, going to ring A-Plan tomorrow and then keep fingers crossed for Thursday.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77