e23 for restoration

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:58 pm

Iam new to the forum can anybody suggest what I might have to pay for a decent E23 for a concourse restoration and what it might be worth when done.thanks

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:32 pm

No idea on costs for a decent restoration, i guess it will depend hugely on the starting vehicle's condition.

As a benchmark for pricing, this E23 733i recently sold at auction for Â£20k. But it has 23,600 warranted miles, and 2 keepers.

hap · Post by **hap** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:52 pm

Is it an alpina ?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:01 pm

Presumably it is, but there's very little E23 stock out there for sale irrespective of model. It was surprising that 733i had only recently sold

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:33 pm

thanks so far.I believe it to be a genuine B10 3.5 REG NO B861GRR Any more help much appreciated

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:35 pm

I am following the 1960-ties and 1970-ties BMW market since the 1980-ties from Belgium, Germany and Switzerland. I live in the UK since 1999.

It seems to me that the usual "Will it be worth the financial and commercial risk to restore x car?", by using the "best result achieved for a comparable, minus what it would cost "us" to bring "that heap" up to "those" standards, calculation does not always work with Alpina's.

Why?
They are rare
Hence there are very few Hagerty guides or price matches/auction views for comparables
Parts are rare and expensive
No one knows for sure who did what and where with a BMW to turn it into an Alpina before they became a manufacturer. In case with the E23, Zender or BBS bumpers came standard on a TWR converted BMW-Alpina assembled in the UK?
Sytner has some documented build files, but not for some others
Alpina-BMW builds seem so individual from another, that there is no science. Why does this E30 c2 have a red speedo indicator and the other not? Ah because so and so called in sick that day when we build "that" one. Why? Ah yes, we used to colour them ourselves.

On the flipside:
anyone who is into BMW's, might become weak at the knees following a sniff off an Alpina
It is for people who want The Best (Mr Bovensiepens credo)
It attracts highly individual characters
And those sometimes come into money, wanting to part with it.

Ergo: Any restoration starts by necessity as an unknown passion project. IF you document it well, and provide insight and context, you might attract more and similar, acting as a spin off for further work. It might even sell well, but you might have to wait a long time before you have a buyer.

I hope your passion wins.....

Kind regards,

Bert

hap · Post by **hap** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:56 pm

The reg rings a bell either from a magazine and or styner alpina advert
What colour is it? Condition?

Update its black fast lane mag april 85 featured it 6 page road test

hap · Post by **hap** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:07 pm

hap · Post by **hap** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:42 am

Any more details rocky?

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:59 pm

thanks again this is the same car too many fingers and thumbs when I posted the vrm. Can I get a copy of the article from any source.The car does not appear to have the chin spoiler does that matter? can a replacement be obtained? Since the car has appeared in a magazine article will that establish that it is e genuine alpina

hap · Post by **hap** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:18 pm

Yes spoiler shud be available
The article you may need to contact them directly to see if they provide
They do pop up on eBay but not often due to the age of the magazine
Yes it is genuine but some of the alpina parts may be long gone
We need full pics to go give a proper appraisal there are some better experts who know all the e23 cars and history etc

hap · Post by **hap** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:27 pm

Also may I ask where the car is currently located ?

AG · Post by AG » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:40 am

Rocky drop me a pm either via here or via the facebook pages noted in my signature, I could probably help and will be able to confirm its authenticity via the sytner records I have, but if it is GRR and the thing is still complete then its authenticity isn't really in doubt! I've sort of devoted the past 16 years to these e23 Alpina variants

AG · Post by AG » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:54 am

You can easily lose Â£10k on a full body restoration on these, parts that may need refreshing can be done but items that are hard to locate are things like the Alpina supplied suspension etc, however if the car has its originals these can be sent away and brought back to life.

Badges etc are very hard to replace, interiors, std BMW really so no issue there as quite a few are being broken, so unless its a split fold rear in buffalo leather (which it shouldn't be), everything is available. Front spoiler, GRR was one of the few cars to actually be sold with this in place so it should be put back, you won't find a genuine new one though but replicas are available today.

Its a long road though if done properly, a colleague of mine did bring one back from the brink, but the cars costs far outweighed the cars value at the time.

Mechanically though is where this car needs to be 100% complete. So you really need to do some checks on this part of the car.

A concourse car value, very hard to predict considering so few appear and even fewer are restored, A rough around the edges but running car can be had for Â£8/9k today, one in an excellent good usable condition did sell a few years ago for Â£16k and concourse, who knows. Â£20k upwards dependent on the market. Most I knew of now reside in mainland Europe.

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:38 pm

Thanks for your response AG. I have made some enquiries and I am now fairly confident that the car in question was Frank Sytners personal transport. The vehicle was first registered in January 1985 and has featured in a couple of magazines. Sytners did not obtain the Alpina franchise until later in 1985 and my suspicion is the vehicle was ordered by FS from Germany and doubled as his own car and a demonstrator for the newly opened franchise.
The car is complete, there is very little rust and the interior is not as you might expect leather but a mid-grey velour.
The registration number is in fact B681GRR which confirms that it is the actual car which was featured in Fast Lane and Autocar in February 1985 which was before the Sytner franchise was granted and as the car is right-hand drive and the Speedo et cetera it's in imperial measures that leads me to suspect that it was probably the first E23 B 10 3.5 in the UK and since I'm told there were such a limited number of them actually produced it may have been the very first.
I am making enquiries elsewhere but if you can help me at all I would be very grateful. I am having the car will shortly and will have some images taken of it "as is" and then will assess the situation and decide how to move forward.