Information and comments required..

John B10 · Post by **John B10** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:54 pm

Does anyone know anything about a 1999 B10 V8S in MORO RED metallic for sale by UK GTI on Autotrader. Plaque number 536 (not on register). Original price was Â£12990. Now Â£11990. I think Â£10500 to Â£11000 is more reasonable if description is correct.
Any info. thoughts or comments are very welcome.

b10brian · Post by **b10brian** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:57 pm

I know the B10 v8S model wasnt manufactured till around 2002/3 and plaque n 536 soiunds a bit high for the v8s as I think less were made

So it is probably a B10v8

John_C · Post by **John_C** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:45 pm

You're right, it's not a V8S, it's the V8.

It does look very nice but it's overpriced if you ask me. It's got the xenons and 4:3 nav but other than that the spec is missing a few things I'd want, e.g. no side airbags, standard seats.

It looks a nice car but not a five figure car. For me to get anywhere near Â£10k it would have to be truly immaculate with a meticulous service history showing lots of money spent recently on brakes, suspension etc.

Just my 0.02p

Cheers,
John

Post by **neil** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:48 pm

It is definitely a V8 not a V8S - has the advert changed as it states it as a V8.

Link here

Chas · Post by **Chas** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:14 pm

Nice spec, but it's a pre-facelift V8 model which in my humble opinion isn't worth more than Â£7k-Â£8k.

The facelift made a huge difference to the interior with a smaller diameter steering wheel and widescreen sat-nav which has plug & play DVD upgrades. You can probably get a facelifted 2001 E39 540 sport for Â£5k and I'd suggest it is much better value for money.

In any case, you should be able to get a very decent facelift V8 for Â£10k.

nealpina · Post by **nealpina** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:48 am

Obviously I will say that I love the colour. If you are unaware my recent B10 is also this colour. Just FYI the correct name for the colour is â€˜Mora Metallicâ€™.

Depending on my week next week, I may visit a friend in South London. E-mail me if you would like me to visit the car on your behalf.

Chas wrote:Nice spec, but it's a pre-facelift V8 model which in my humble opinion isn't worth more than Â£7k-Â£8k.

The facelift made a huge difference to the interior with a smaller diameter steering wheel and widescreen sat-nav which has plug & play DVD upgrades. You can probably get a facelifted 2001 E39 540 sport for Â£5k and I'd suggest it is much better value for money.

In any case, you should be able to get a very decent facelift V8 for Â£10k.

Sorry Chas but I disagree with your hugh difference but agree with you on the price:

The differences of the interior are not that great between pre and post facelift cars. Apart from the airbags which I believe to be an extra two â€“ I have eight airbags IIRC and facelifts have ten. Everything else can be upgraded to facelift specification.

I may decide to upgrade certain parts on my B10 at a later date but at the moment I like the originality. I like the ALPINA wood on the square screen and the steering wheel doesnâ€™t make any difference to my driving, I therefore consider these parts to be cosmetic items. When I purchased my B10 these part were not a concern to me. As these parts are easily upgradable. Overall the wow factor with my car is the external colour

IMO it is priced too high. I think a realistic price will be something like Â£7 to Â£9k on the forecourt and then negotiate a price anywhere from Â£6.5k to Â£8k with a six months warrantee IMO. However the trader seems to want more than this.

If someoneâ€™s heart is set to purchase another B10 then no matter how high the spec of a 540 Sports is, or how well priced it is, there will be IMO some form of regret or disappointment if a non-ALPINA is purchased.

My 2p worth

Crombers · Post by **Crombers** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:09 pm

Sort of by the by, but are the number of air bags facelift related? My 96 E39 540 didn't have airbags up the A pillar but my 98 528 did. Neither were facelift.

Chas · Post by **Chas** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:51 pm

nealpina wrote:Sorry Chas but I disagree. The differences of the interior are not that great between pre and post facelift cars.

That's the beauty of an internet forum - you're as welcome to your opinion as the rest of us Neal.

However, I'd point out that I've had three E39s; one of them a pre facelift and one an //M sport model. I've also had access to a fourth low-spec B10 for a few months.

There is a huge difference in the interior feel of the facelift cars. It applies equally to the E38s, and the concensus on 7 forums (fora?) is the same. That's why some people go to the (expensive) effort to perform upgrades - sat-nav and steering wheel in particular.

Just my Â£0.02, of course (or not as the case may be)

nealpina · Post by **nealpina** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:36 pm

Glad that this is an internet forum and like myself I hope that youâ€™re not taking any of my comments to be personal. As sometimes my writing style does make me appear that I am having a dig which I don't mean it to be.

I however also find the beauty of internet forums that sometimes people can, and even I, at times can go off at a tangent. The cars that we are talking about are the above B10 V8 and mine B10. Both of these cars are pre-facelift and are what I consider to be high specification cars. I consider the screen and steering wheel to be cosmetic items. I am unsure with why you have mentioned the Satnav , if needed I will argue that the upgrade of the satnav is a tangible thing but does not make a hugh or even any difference to the interior I therefore fail to see the significance with the mention of this.

I therefore would like to know what makes the hugh difference with the widescreen and the smaller diameter steering wheel? I donâ€™t understand how these two items on their own can make such a hugh difference to the interior. As far as I am aware everything else is virtually the same. Therefore does these two items make a tangible difference or is it something obvious such as an additional physical item or even items that I am not aware of?

I have mentioned once before on the forum that one of my Uncles is a car trader. I have driven my fair share of BMWs. I am not going to say which one it is but he also recently had a post-facelift B10 V8 which I had the pleasure of driving for a couple of days. He also tried to sell this to me before I purchased my B10.

Perhaps I should have made this clearer in my original post if a pre-facelift B10 ticks all the boxes then for under Â£1500 (more likely to be Â£1200) the steering wheel and widescreen can be purchased. For an additional Â£450 or less the MKIV satnav can also be purchased. My method for pricing a pre-facelift and post-facelift car is the differences in price between the two and will the costs be reasonable to upgrade if a pre-facelift car is purchased.

If I do upgrade my steering I am currently looking at an alternative method which will save me several hundred pounds.

Just something to think about: the E39 only received one facelift throughout its lifecycle but the E38 received two.

John B10 · Post by **John B10** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:46 pm

I have read with interest the replies to my request for information and thank all who took time to comment.
My present B10 3.3 is a pre facelift and I find it a comfortable and easy car to drive with a reasonable spec. I have also owned a facelift e39 sport and do not remember it being hugely different from the B10. At the end of the day, the only cure for an itch is to scratch it so Jean and I will be visiting her elderly aunt in Coventry for our pre Christmas visit very soon and I will take the chance to view the car. I can say thay I have no intention of giving up Alpina ownership . Will respond in due course.

Chas · Post by **Chas** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:37 am

nealpina wrote:I consider the screen and steering wheel to be cosmetic items.

They are cosmetic but they are also very functional.

The narrow screen looks dated (in my opinion). If you compare the Mk2 system against the widescreen Mk3 there is also a big difference in functionality. By time the Mk2 sat-nav worked out where you were going, you had already got there, and it was not easy to see details on the narrow screen! There's a further gulf between the Mk3 and Mk4 in terms of refresh speed etc.

The steering wheel is much more important. Its the only part of the car in touch with your skin when you drive; think about it! The diameter, rim thickness, and material used is therefore very important in terms of how it makes the car feel. My old 528 had the standard 4 spoke (bus) steering wheel which is the basis for the pre-facelift Alpina wheel. It's horrible, and it was the over-riding factor in my decision to sell that car. It was also top of the list of priorities for my current car.

The B10 BiTurbo has the earlier version of the 4 spoke wheel and I hate it every time I get into that car. It will be changed as soon as I can source a replacement.

The point is, why spend top dollar on a decent pre-facelift B10, only to shell out a further Â£2k to change the steering wheel, widescreen and sat-nav set-up. I'd go straight for the facelift model any day and save a lot of hassle!

The cosmetics are important too, of course

John_C · Post by **John_C** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:23 pm

It's so much down to personal taste that I don't think you can have an "answer" as such, but here are what passes for my thoughts

Ref the nav, I'd rather have a TomTom as it's in line of sight and is cheap and easy to replace. Having spoken to several people who have used the various BMW navs they all agree they're inferior to a Â£100 aftermarket job so factory-fit nav worries me not a jot. Which is fortunate, as I've not got it

I find the much-maligned "bus" steering wheel absolutely fine. It's very comfortable to hold and.... er...... when you turn it the front wheels turn too. I certainly can't see why I'd spend hundreds of pounds to change it to a facelift wheel, and yes I have driven an E39 facelift with the smaller wheel. It is a bit nicer to hold, but that's as far as I'd go.

nealpina · Post by **nealpina** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:38 pm

Chas I think youâ€™re unaware that the sat-nav and screen are two separate products. I can upgrade from Mk II to either MK III or MK IV without replacing my square screen.

I am not saying that I will not upgrade my screen or steering wheel because at the moment I am enjoying the originality of my car with the ALPINA wood. I may upgrade my TomTom very soon to the 950 but if I find a cheap and working MK IV I will also buy this. I would prefer to have two upto date sat-navs because the next time that I am in Europe â€˜The Scottish ALPINA owner AA guyâ€™ may be not around to fix my auxiliary socket

The thing is also to a find a B10s in this spec. Finding a post-facelift 3.3 manual is like henâ€™s teeth. Therefore there are pros and cons with both.

Edit: the older or newer steering doesnâ€™t make any differences to me. I personally do not see the steering wheel in an E39/B10 to be a tangible item. I do understand the differences with an older car such as an E34.

thomas v8 · Post by **thomas v8** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:10 pm

Just a thought did the pre-facelift b10 steering wheel come with the full multi functional steering options, e;g telephone directory, dialing options?

Also did the pre-facelift come with electric front seats and heated seating?

KevinB10 · Post by **KevinB10** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:40 pm

Like Chas I have owned a pre-facelift B10 and a facelift. I would agree with Chas, the interior to me is much improved.
As soon as I sat in the car when I went to view it I noticed and preferred the changes.
I did find the steering wheel rather large. My previous B10 did not have sat nav so cannot really comment on that one although I do like my new Mk IV unit.

Thomas I believe electric seats was an optional extra pre-facelift as mine were heated but only had manual adjustment.