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Advice appreciated on E39 B10 Purchase
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Alpinanewbie
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Advice appreciated on E39 B10 Purchase Reply with quote

Hi All, Like some others, I have also been "lurking" this forum to glean as much as I can about Alpina's, a B10 V8 in particular.

I've come across one on auto trader http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301315139198/sort/default/usedcars/make/bmw/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/keywords/alpina/page/4/postcode/sk84pf/radius/1500?logcode=p

The seller seems like a nice bloke. I told him I was based up north, serious about buying the car and after some gentlemanly haggling got the price down to £5,000. In comparison with other B10's of this age it is quite a lot more expensive. As mentioned though the seller seemed trustworthy (his father owned the car before him for several years) He was also honest enough to tell me that the head gasket had gone at one point and this and the block had to be replaced, by a company called CPC Performance. They took a 4.0 and bored it out to 4.6.

My questions are:

- Has anyone got experience of this car or anything about it?
- Is the original block a Alpina made block or is it the same as the replacement?
- Does the price sound about right )baring in mind that I have agreed that if the car is fine I won't haggle the price down any further
- Anything else I should ask/look out for.

Thanks in advance!
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ali
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has had facelist(post 99) front and rear lights put on it which freshens it up a bit
I'd be very wary of the engine swap info you have received.
No garage I ever heard of would bore out a 4.0 to a 4.6. If you were to you'd start with a 4.4,
If it were my money heading in this cars direction I'd make properly sure it was a genuine Alpina engine. See if the owner can get the engine number off the block, bnot the V5 document
Never agree a price on an aged car unseen. You never know what may be lurking underneath
No interior shots and dodgy pikey plates.
I'd go find another TBH

Oh btw you can see your postcode in the autotrader link. You may wish to amend that
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Norrie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: B10 Reply with quote

DVLA database confirms Alpina B10 V8 1997. Have no other info sorry. Plate is N1 OSG.
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BarryM
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well CPC Performance is Phil Crouch who is very well respected so a phone call to him should give you some more info if he did the engine work http://www.cpcpe.com/

I'd want to see the car and ask some more questions as the photos don't tell you anything and no interior photos is a bit iffy.

I agree with ali-bumble, you can't possibly agree a price without seeing the car - and there are usually a few on offer so why go for one that seems expensive?
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Last edited by BarryM on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alpinanewbie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice so far and yes Ideally I wouldn't have done my haggling before hand, except I'm not exactly close o the car and thought I wold just agree a provisional price pending condition.
I guess two things appealed to me about this one. Firstly it has long term ownership and secondly the mileage is pretty low. I see what you're saying about the postcode, except sk8 is a big place!

I'm not sure the engine work is a good or bad thing at the moment. Perhaps a call to Phil will provide some more information.

Not so sure about this one now, but finding it hard to find,we'll priced low,mileage examples too.
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E24man
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, CPC is well known and admired in a lot of circles so an enquiry there would be the first stp.

As for boring out a 4.0 engine to a 4.6, the historical story is that it couldn't be done so Alpina started casting their own blocks. Buyer beware and make lots of enquiries as you don't want to end up with a B10 body and 540i engine.....
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2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)
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Alpinanewbie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks again for the additional info. I spoke to Phil from CPC Engineering. It was a mistake on my part. As soon as I quoted the numberplate he recognised the car as having changed the headgasket and the block.

Phil informed me it was a 540i block that he used (not a 4.0 as I had previously said) which is essentially a 4.4, bored out to 4.6 and exactly the same process that Alpina does apparently. Phil also mentioned that the head gaskets had been replaced/upgraded with the metal ones from an X5. If I was to buy another B10, I would be hoping this upgrade had already been done or would perform this work, which would I'm guessing cost at least £1,500.

I've been looking for a B10 for a while now and while I have seen a few for £3-4K, they are of higher mileage and don't appear to have long term ownership like this one.

Finally, I'm not sure in reality the registration is worth £1,250, but possibly? At the very least it gives it a little prestige (agree the number plates themselves need to be less chavvy)

Any final thoughts would be appreciated. I'll then inform the buyer if I'm going to progress with the sale and ask for some more photos of the interior.

Thanks again.
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BarryM
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well given even the final B10 cars will now be 10 years old I think you'll do well to find many under 100k (and I'd want to run a check to verify mileage). The headgasket issue is only up to a certain date so easily checked.

You are looking to buy at a bargain basement price so I guess you're planning to spend some money on the inevitable bits that will need doing. Rest assured, no matter how well looked after you will find parts wearing out on a 16 year old car.

My car is a 2001 model and had a great history but has still cost me about £1k in the first 10 months - a combination of must do stuff (tyres and some cooling bits) and sensible precautionary work (gearbox oil change for example) - then there's the fuel.....

FInally I think you can buy a B10 registration for about £350 from the DVLA so unless that plate has some special meaning for you I wouldn't bother!

Having said all that I've loved every minute of my car so find the right one and you won't be disappointed Very Happy
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JPR89
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As already said, Phil at CPC knows his stuff so you can be assured the work he did was done properly. Did you enquire as to whether he has done any other work on the car too? If there was anything else adrift Phil would of picked it up.
Only things I can think of to watch or check would be suspension bits, like anti roll bar links and trailing arms etc.. of which was done by him last year on mine.
Might be worth having a trans fluid change further down the line at that age unless it's been done already.

Other bits as mentioned by other above could be cooling bits etc, but this isn't specific to the Alpinas
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E24man
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear you've clarified the engine history. Regarding the plate, the above advice is right; I picked up a nice B10 plate for 405gbp from dvla so if he thinks the plate is worth 1250 ask him to take the plate and the 1250 off the price.
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2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)
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BMW540
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
which is essentially a 4.4, bored out to 4.6 and exactly the same process that Alpina does apparently.


This page http://www.alpina-archive.com/?page_id=185 says:
Quote:

As the BMW V8 engine has Nicasil (later Alusil) coated bores, the block can´t just be over-bored, a whole new block needs to be cast for Alpina by BMW with the displacement increased to 4.6 litre.


So it looks like just boring could be a problem.
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MarkWG
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the time "over bored" is sometimes used by people as a generic term for "making an engine internally bigger", & is just easier for some to get their head around. If it checks out with the guy who did the work, I doubt it'll be a problem.
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Alpinanewbie
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again - would definitely do the transmission fluid change and I'll ask about the bushing, however as mentioned cars are mechanical devices, so can only really mitigate against future work.

Seller also sent me through pictures of the interior. Nothing amazing to see, seats look a little tired, but firm enough. Blue dials. Also sent the work carried out on the engine.

Qty Description Price
Invoice No: 102479 Page 1 of 1
296.00 Remove and strip engine
fit rebored engine block and seemble refit and comission into car
1.00 Block s/h
1.00 Rebore block - subcontract
1.00 Environmental Disposal Charge 1.00 Block cover
1.00 SEALANT **COS ONLY**
1.00 Head gasket M62 4.6 r/h
1.00 Gasket, cylinder head , M62 4.6 l/h 1.00 M60 Upper T/c Gas
1.00 M62 upper tc gasket
22.00 Seal, rocker nut , M50/2/4/60/62, S50,62 1.00 ROCKER GASKET SET M60/M62 RIGHT 1.00 ROCKER GASKET SET, M60/M62 LEFT 2.00 Head bolt kit M60 M62
10.00 Bolt, Main bearing cap M60 M62 1.00 Upper sump gasket M62
1.00 lower sump gasket M62
2.00 boot strut

Total plus the VAT - 3.744.71

Fair comment about the private plate, plus my names not N1OSG! I'm convinced overall it is a straight car, however I might not be able to buy it through no fault of the seller. Currently the cheapest insurance I can find is £2K and Adrian Flux who I currently have a policy with for my other BMW can't find a cuter way of adding an additional driver, giving me a policy on a reduced mileage and so on. The search continues. Thanks again for the additional information, you've helped reassure a newbie to these cars


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Ikule
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Insurance try my new insurer

http://www.classiclineinsurance.co.uk/

they halved the renewal price I got from Flux Very Happy
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Chas
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpinanewbie wrote:
Also sent the work carried out on the engine.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that there is no mention of pistons/rings with a rebored block? Would it be acceptable to reuse the old ones?
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