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Keyless security issues
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Charles
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Keyless security issues Reply with quote

Folks,

We have had a number of threads running recently talking about the theft of vehicles with keyless systems. As these increase in number, it becomes more dificult to track the comments so I have decided to set-up a sticky thread to allow you to comment and report on such issues in a single place so that there is an easily tracked file for future use.

This is also in response to an article in today's Sunday Times In Gear magazine which reports on such issues and refers to BMW specifically. The article can be found on page 2 of the magazine and I have lifted a couple of paragraphs which may be of interest:

Thieves find new ways to drive away keyless cars

"Car makers have launched an investigation after a second security loophole involving keyless cars was exposed in just over a year. Police have found that thieves can program a blank key fob in seconds using equipment sold online, then use it to drive the car away ...

...Briggs [Mike Briggs, vehicle security manager at Thatcham] began an investigation with the police and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) after a stolen car was recovered. Police found a fob they believe was made by "cloning", the technique thought to be behind a spate of BMW thefts in northeast London. BMW is aware of the issue and awaits Thatcham's findings...

..The SMMT believes keyless-vehicle thefts are on a small scale but cannot provide figures. Investigation findings should be out in mid-July"

(c) Sunday Times, author Dominic Tobin, 20th May 2012



What is of greatest relevance here is that the article states that BMW are aware of the problem - which flies in the face of the "fobbing off" (excuse the pun) that members here have received recently regarding this issue.

Whilst it is clearly a BMW issue, it is important that ALPINA are aware of our concerns so that they can put pressure on BMW as necessary - given that our cars rely on a BMW security system that is being questioned as flawed. That being the case, may I ask that you try and keep your comments factual and rational so that the thread represents a sensible and appropriate response to the problem from customers.

Please feel free to add links to previous threads as reference and also to comment as appropriate. The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness of the issue and to allow us to prepare a file for ALPINA and/or BMW in the future, if needs be.

Over to you ...
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dellboy 1959
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea Charles,
Here's hoping the problem is resolved asap.
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Eviltad
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea for a sticky.

So which are the vehicles affected by this? I am guessing the E60 and E90 body types. Is this too general an assumption?
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drewjak
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scarily easy with the right equipment!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz9vmlRy_qg
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nealpina
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone has cracked the protocol which BMW are using. BMW must be or working on a fix for this bug a software update from BMW in the future should fix this. In the meantime BW Auto Repairs can either patch or fix this bug.
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joylove
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With so many cars going missing, including the B5 touring and 6 1M's in a month, three cars a week for one insurance assessor and one 24h old F10 the correct phrase to use would be 'epidemic'.

A long PH thread on it.

Here's a few videos of how the locks are pickable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjb6WVGaMyg&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjkabA1WLk

Of course, cars stopped getting stolen not because the locks improved, but because they couldn't start them afterwards.

Here's a CAS car (without a proper key blade) getting stolen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmPfCFFkqQ

The story goes that anything over M sport is being stolen, with black X5/X6 going to places like South Africa complete, and the 320d M sports are being broken for parts.

There was a software update made available 6 months ago, but since brand new F10s are going, it's not sufficient. Since a software update reportedly takes a ridiculous 4 hours, the solution is still not in sight.

Those that have had one car taken and two replacements also the day after thy arrived will be facing some crippling insurance premiums in the future.
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DAN@ADRIAN FLUX
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll be very interested to see how this issue unfolds in the coming months.
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vblanche
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E90post thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12011481&postcount=203
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dellboy 1959
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so glad at this point that a certain emo was added :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ Niel and the likes can reprimand me later for abuse of emo's but this is totally unacceptable.
That letter is nothing but a smoke screen to fob off the numpty punter and it makes me sick to my gut that an honest,hard working person can have their pride and joy stolen by counter electronics in the hand of what is in effect a one brain cell chav,WTF is going on when a chav/crim can outwit all the eggheads that make/produce and program these so called high tech security devices Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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DonFlintoni
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dellboy 1959 wrote:
I'm so glad at this point that a certain emo was added :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ Niel and the likes can reprimand me later for abuse of emo's but this is totally unacceptable.
That letter is nothing but a smoke screen to fob off the numpty punter and it makes me sick to my gut that an honest,hard working person can have their pride and joy stolen by counter electronics in the hand of what is in effect a one brain cell chav,WTF is going on when a chav/crim can outwit all the eggheads that make/produce and program these so called high tech security devices Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


I hear and share your frustrations Del but its hardly likely to be your averge burberry wearing chav thats doing this. More like eastern europe organised crime gangs.
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joylove
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonFlintoni wrote:
I hear and share your frustrations Del but its hardly likely to be your averge burberry wearing chav thats doing this. More like eastern europe organised crime gangs.
With the gear costing just a few hundred Euros on eBay, which you'd make back on your first X5, gangs and one-man-shows are equally involved. The gangs though are the ones that are likely to target the rare stuff, rather than the local stuff.
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DonFlintoni
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joylove wrote:
DonFlintoni wrote:
I hear and share your frustrations Del but its hardly likely to be your averge burberry wearing chav thats doing this. More like eastern europe organised crime gangs.
With the gear costing just a few hundred Euros on eBay, which you'd make back on your first X5, gangs and one-man-shows are equally involved. The gangs though are the ones that are likely to target the rare stuff, rather than the local stuff.


The problem is not nicking them, its what you do with them once nicked.

10 to the penny cars like X5s will have cloned plates fitted so they can be used every day without suspicion being raised until theyre either stripped or shipped abroad. Alpinas on the other hand would have to be taken to a location out of sight and your average chav won't have that faciity or the contacts to sell on.
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dellboy 1959
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joylove wrote:
DonFlintoni wrote:
I hear and share your frustrations Del but its hardly likely to be your averge burberry wearing chav thats doing this. More like eastern europe organised crime gangs.
With the gear costing just a few hundred Euros on eBay, which you'd make back on your first X5, gangs and one-man-shows are equally involved. The gangs though are the ones that are likely to target the rare stuff, rather than the local stuff.


This was my thinking as well.
Surely it must be possible to prosecute the firms selling them as it's got to be illegal even if they are being sold off shore.
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joylove
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dellboy 1959 wrote:
joylove wrote:
DonFlintoni wrote:
I hear and share your frustrations Del but its hardly likely to be your averge burberry wearing chav thats doing this. More like eastern europe organised crime gangs.
With the gear costing just a few hundred Euros on eBay, which you'd make back on your first X5, gangs and one-man-shows are equally involved. The gangs though are the ones that are likely to target the rare stuff, rather than the local stuff.


This was my thinking as well.
Surely it must be possible to prosecute the firms selling them as it's got to be illegal even if they are being sold off shore.
Not sure. Like other theft tools such as hammers, ladders or flatbed trucks they aren't banned so can't be illegal to sell them. What they could get them for is copyright infringement on BMW code.
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dellboy 1959
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But surely you could argue that normal tools such as hammers/screwdrivers have more than one purpose whereas this gadget is produced for one purpose and one purpose only.
I would at least like to see some sort of restriction in sales as in you must prove your a genuine respected garage before you are allowed one.
Let's face it, you couldn't go into a gunsmiths and say sell me that 12 bore and I'll show you my FAC license next time i pop in Shocked
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