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B5 E60 Buying Info

 
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jimmy_biggles



Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: B5 E60 Buying Info Reply with quote

Hi All,

Back again! But this time I have given up on the B10 (couldn't find one the met the requirements) and then spent too much time looking for an M5 E39, which I have also given up on as there are so many bad examples out there. I have now decided to try and locate a good B5 E60!

Some background - I have moved to Berlin from England last year and this will be my first purchase in Germany. I have a few B5's ready to go and view. Both pre facelift and have covered over 180000km. I can't find anything specifically advising what I should be looking for, especially around the supercharger. Do you think that as its covered this amount of km's the likelihood if it failing now is minimal?

Also when I was trying to find insurance for the B10, a lot of German companies wouldn't even quote me. Are there any companies that specifically cover Alpina's? Final question - can anyone recommend some Euro warranties?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers,

James
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PhillV8S
ALPI
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Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 412
Location: Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant help with the Euro specific questions but it will be more than likely that the supercharger will have been changed before now at the mileages you are looking at.
There is no hard and fast rule for how long they last as you have to ensure the correct oil filter has been used as a common issue is wrong filter is fitted which starves the supercharger of oil and then its curtains for it soon afterwards. As a general rule I would say 60-70k miles seems about an average lifespan but there are examples with a lot less or a lot more so far as longevity goes.
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Kyle
ALPIN
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Location: DE/UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: B5 E60 Buying Info Reply with quote

jimmy_biggles wrote:
I have now decided to try and locate a good B5 E60!

Some background - I have moved to Berlin from England last year and this will be my first purchase in Germany. I have a few B5's ready to go and view. Both pre facelift and have covered over 180000km. I can't find anything specifically advising what I should be looking for, especially around the supercharger. Do you think that as its covered this amount of km's the likelihood if it failing now is minimal?


I'm based in Germany. Here is a brain dump of all things B5.

Glad your going for a B5. They are just awesome cars and in Germany can be really used as inter-city ground weapons Cool

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND BUYING FROM A GERMAN DEALER. READ BETWEEN THE LINES. I've experienced first hand some dealers trying to sell accident repaired B5's as "no accidents".

If you are serious about a car, email ALPINA Buchloe with the type and Number and ask them if they can check the super charger history, and ask if the parts order history for the car might suggest any accident repair. Contact: sent via PM. You might want to ask for the original spec sheet for the car.

General advice for B5 of that mileage

180000km is a decent mileage. I'm on 160000km ish. Do ensure to take the car to an independent garage and have it fully checked. Especially for suspension, anti-roll bars, engine mounts, struts top and bottom, and steering. Anything with a joint or a bush. All the aforementioned should be checked for ware/wobble/play. Check that the bolts/fixings are sound and tight to the relevant Nm. Know what the condition of these areas before and you can make an informed buy, and also know what replace if you buy.

Driving on the right puts more ware on the right hand supporting components/suspension e.g. roll bars and bushes. Things like drainage grids and road imperfections tend to be on the right then, and round-a-bouts load/use the right side of the car. The opposite for countries that drive on the left. So keep that in mind.

Check for FSH. Look for good care etc.

Check that the oil filter part nr on invoices/history is the right part number, otherwise there could be internal engine damage. Teilenummer: 11 42 7 511 161

Check the current oil filter is the correct part. I wouldn't buy a car if its had the wrong filter for any length of time.

Check if the car had its gearbox oil replaced. If not be sure to get it booked in with one of the ZF official workshops and have it flushed, checked, refilled etc.

Ideally go with a car that has a split/foldable rear seats WAAAAY MORE PRACTICAL than the fixed back seats. e.g. you could transport long things like skis or flat pack furniture.

For consumption data check my signature link.

For the supercharger

The supercharger needs to be treated like a ware part, e.g. like an air filter.

The factory says replace the charger every 100,000km. There are a number of factors but the main one is the oil seals give up and you end up getting oil in the wrong parts of the engine and than need expensive top engine strip down, clean and rebuild.

To quote ALPINA DE directly: "If the radial compressor leaks, the oil goes into the intake manifold and gets burned/stuck on the pistons and valves."

I made the mistake of not replacing sooner when I knew the seals were going, and had to take the head off, strip clean and refit all the 32 valves, cylinders, ports and related bits.

Things getting getting burnt/stuck on your engine internals is bad... in my case causing lower compression levels and misfires.

ALPINA Buchloe did the initial diagnosis on the engine. Munich Legends was the partner I chose for undertaking the head rebuild. Both provided excellent service and results.

Ideally you want to have a garage stick an endoscope in the spark plug holes on both banks, all holes ideally, and check the valves, pay special attention the outlet valves. They should look black and oily-sooted and not have build up. If they are browny/goldy and have build up, this means the was oil in the wrong part of the engine and likely the charger seal is going or it had happened in the past and was not corrected.

pic 1: outlet valve from my b5 before treatment

pic 2: values from one of the cylinders exposed.
note the difference between the inlet and outlet valves, this is from the higher temps of the hot gas burning the oil on to the outlet valves. This was causing my car to misfire and go into limp mode.

pic 3: example of one of the banks from by b5 before treatment

If left ignored at the very least the engine can drop to limp mode under load and you'll have misfires. Who knows what else might happen, over heating and ... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

With the under covers removed, from memory near the oil pan, there is a specific pipe (one of the large diameter ones) near the cooling package at the front that can be removed and checked for oil. This is another sign of charger oil seal problems. I'm not sure which pipe exactly, its must be part of the inter-cooler system is my best guess.

You'll want to keep a diary of oil checks (I use my smartphone) and have an exact regime. Up to temp oil 90 to 105c. Flat ground. Engine off. Time 5mins. Dip and record. If its start to drink oil, odds are your charger oil seals are going. Check that pipe I mentioned earlier. Normally mine drinks hardly any oil and I push relatively hard on the Autobahn sometimes.

Between the markers on the dipstick is 1.5 liters of oil.

I enclose at the end of this post, before and after values for smooth running and cylinder compression tests. If you really think you've found "the one" then you might want to get those tests done on the engine before parting with the cash.

jimmy_biggles wrote:
Also when I was trying to find insurance for the B10, a lot of German companies wouldn't even quote me. Are there any companies that specifically cover Alpina's?


Yes, ALPINA DE actual have them listed on their website: http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/de/services/versicherung/

For insurance. At the start of our German life we used one of the German ALPINA community members who has a number of ALPINA's and his business in insurance. Name: Herr Rainer Witt. He is recommended by ALPINA DE on the linked page.

I found a slightly better deal with Allianz in the end (for all of our cars in a package). We happened to be in the south of Germany at the time and went to the local Allianz office and it wasn't a big deal. We had the template from the previous insurance setup.

jimmy_biggles wrote:
Final question - can anyone recommend some Euro warranties?


I'd post on the German forum to ask about warranties: http://www.alpina-forum.de/forum. Personally I just have some cash set aside and forget it, in case I have an expensive repair.

Recently the CCC central computer that drives the i-drive and nav died and I had to replace the unit and also took the opportunity to retro-fit the AUX port and update the software in the car.

My impression of the E60 / B5 is its fairly bullet proof. However you have to consider the older the car and the higher the mileage, you need to set aside a repair budget for the year to handle unexpected age related repairs. Its good to always be putting a little aside for the next super charger.

A note on audio input

You want an AUX port for audio input (I had mine retro fitted recently and was able the keep the 6 CD changer in the glovebox also). The built-in bluetooth in infuriatingly for calls only. With the AUX port you can rig your own bluetooth receiver up with some DIY thinking. Normally the CD player in the centre console will play CD and MP3 CD's but otherwise your very limited without the AUX port. I tried FM radio broadcast sticks that go in the cig lighter but they are fairly shite.

Right now I'm struggling a little with volume and bass with the AUX port because it has some caps in the wiring loom, to the best of my knowledge to prevent DC from headphone ports or bad hardware from causing damage to the a/v systems. I'm trying a number of solutions including trying to get line out audio in a few ways. I'll post the reports on that if I remember.

smooth running and compression tests results before and after head strip down and rebuild.

Gaskets were done, and everything was cleaned up and refitted.

Code:
SMOOTH RUNNING VALUES
CYLINDER    BEFORE    AFTER
1.          0.06      0.16
2.          0.62      0.58
3.          -0.17     0.06
4.          0.80      0.13
5.          -0.82     0.19
6.          -0.54     0.19
7.          -0.46     0.42
8.          0.25      0.08
 
COMPRESSION (BAR)
CYLINDER    BEFORE    AFTER
1.          7.5       7.8
2.          7.1       7.6
3.          7.1       7.7
4.          7.1       7.6
5.          7.5       7.7
6.          7.5       7.8
7.          7.7       7.8
8.          7.7       7.9

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jimmy_biggles



Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilV8S and Kyle - thank you both very much for your replies and useful information, much appreciated.

One of the cars i am looking at is no. 353 and from a dealer. It has full service history (oil changed every year) from the same BMW/Alpina dealer Faba Autowelt in Mönchengladbach which is a good sign. The last service included cylinder head, water pump, running chain and other parts replaced apparently. Although the dealer selling the car, not the one mentioned above, says he has no invoices suggesting the supercharger has been replaced. It's on 175km so based on your info it sounds like it should have been. I am going to try to contact Faba Autowelt but am i right in saying the Alpina should also know? I will try to contact them as well.

Probably more of a question for Kyle as he is based in Germany - but would dealers be open to sending the car to an independent to check for the items you mention? I would obviously be willing to fork out for it but would be peace of mind. The dealer is quite far away from me so i need to make sure it's worth the visit.

It is up for 18,990 euros, which is in line with similar cars for sale (but more expensive than the uk! Have begun to realise second hand cars in the uk are considerably cheaper than here! Shocked )

Thanks for the info on insurance, I have reached out to Herr Witt.

Cheers guys.
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jimmy_biggles



Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore my previous question about contacting Alpina re supercharger - on re-reading Kyle's reply he has answered this.

Here is the car in case anyone wants to offer any opinions:
https://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/alpina-b5-limousine-schiebedach-tv-scheckheft-mwst-neuss/246280677.html?action=parkItem
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jimmy_biggles



Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, so I have finally bought myself a B5(S)! And was very much enjoying ownership until it suddenly decided not to start one morning, within less than a week of buying it Sad

Basically, it would crank but not fire.

BMW came out to the car and said it was an issue with the immobiliser, however now it's at the garage they are saying it needs a new ECU Shocked

This is obviously an expensive Alpina part and reluctant to tell them to proceed and order until they have tried all other possibilities.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Feeling pretty unlucky at the moment with it being less than a week after purchasing (private sale).

Any help much appreciated as always.
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Kyle
ALPIN
ALPIN


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Location: DE/UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmy_biggles wrote:
Hi all, so I have finally bought myself a B5(S)! And was very much enjoying ownership until it suddenly decided not to start one morning, within less than a week of buying it Sad

Basically, it would crank but not fire.

BMW came out to the car and said it was an issue with the immobiliser, however now it's at the garage they are saying it needs a new ECU Shocked

This is obviously an expensive Alpina part and reluctant to tell them to proceed and order until they have tried all other possibilities.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Feeling pretty unlucky at the moment with it being less than a week after purchasing (private sale).

Any help much appreciated as always.


I would get a second opinion at the very least and also ask about goodwill. Having an ECU go bad, that is very likely to be a hardware fault that should of been prevented by quality control before the car got on a production line... therefore BMW/Alpina should show significant goodwill in my opinion.
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