G21 B3 Pirelli ALP Tyres

[andy-integrale]

Evening all

The car is fitted with the 20" Alpina Classic forged wheels that have ALP-marked original equipment Pirelli tyres. I understand they are Alpina-specific and were developed with a slightly more compliant sidewall.

Not that they need changing at the moment, but I have always been a Michelin user and wondered how wedded to the ALP tyres I should be or whether it would be an option to fit something else.

If there is one manufacturer-specific tyre, there may be insurance implications if you stray from it; although most cars have MO-marked tyres on from new, that often goes out of the window the first time tyres are changed.

Not sure when Alpina started fitting ALP marked tyres? Anyone got a view on the above?

Cheers

Andy

[Jonnywishbone]

I’ve thought about this, having replaced three tyres already (two punctures and one decent tyre which was replaced as I didn’t want a big delta between tread depths on the same axle) though didn’t really have the option to switch brands without mixing tyre brands, which is obviously not ideal. Same as you, I’ve always had a preference for Michelins.

Ultimately I think I’d err on the side of sticking with the OEM tyres on the basis that I wouldn’t buy an Alpina and then, for example, replace the dampers with something non-OEM. As you point out, the Pirellis are apparently specifically designed for the car and I’m not aware that this was the case for older Alpinas.

Having said that I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if a G2x owner switches up to Michelins and reports no real difference or even an improvement.

One thing I’ve found odd is that I had no issue sourcing the tyres each time. I’m not entirely sure why they’re seemingly widely stocked when they’re apparently designed for a car produced in such minuscule numbers. Of course they can be fitted to other cars but they also seem to be 15-20% more expensive than other P-Zeros and similarly dearer than premium Michelin tyres, so I have no idea why a non-Alpina owner would ever bother buying them. I must be missing something.

[Metrics]

Interesting thread, will be following with interest. Like you both I also prefer Michelin, and the PS4S is in my opinion a tyre with witchcraft, given how it performs and lasts.

Up to the F generation, Alpina exclusively fitted Michelin tyres. While these were not ALP marked, the owners handbook and and B pilar stickers listed the recommended tyre and size as Michelin. G generation cars have now switched to the P Zero, marked ALP.

One question for you as owners is how do the cars drive on the Pirellis? I've heard mixed reports, and some cars have gone on to be fitted with Michelins.

Timely to see this recent thread from John that explains the differences of manufacturer specific tyres like ALP marked P Zeros:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26846

[Yad3100]

Can’t say for certain on alpina models, but my M240 came with Pirelli run flats and the ride was shocking and grip was terrible. I run it for a year before moving to PS3 all round and there was a dramatic difference. The PS3 he a much better turn in and grip levels were up, including in the traction state. Tyres are relatively difficult to measure as feel is as critical as a driver as the measurable ticket factors of noise, fuel and wet grip.

[Jonnywishbone]

One question for you as owners is how do the cars drive on the Pirellis? I've heard mixed reports, and some cars have gone on to be fitted with Michelins.

That’s the $64000 question! I can’t answer without a comparable frame of reference. I’d have to drive the same car with each tyre choice to make the comparison. All I can say is I’ve never thought the tyres are a problem. One issue when assessing them is that I think the most significant single factor affecting the ride of my car is the 20” alloys. I suspect there’s only so much influence 30 profile sidewalls are likely to make, whatever the name on the rim. The grip is fine; I’ve never previously owned an AWD but obviously traction is almost never a problem, they’re fine in the wet and - as someone who’s never bothered with winters - I’ve had no issues with stopping even in the recent snowy/icy weather.

Can’t say for certain on alpina models, but my M240 came with Pirelli run flats and the ride was shocking and grip was terrible. I run it for a year before moving to PS3 all round and there was a dramatic difference. The PS3 he a much better turn in and grip levels were up, including in the traction state. Tyres are relatively difficult to measure as feel is as critical as a driver as the measurable ticket factors of noise, fuel and wet grip.

That’ll be the run craps more than the brand. I had the MPSS on my M240i but my E86 came on Bridgestone RFT’s and they were (notoriously) abominable. I’m pretty sure 99% of Z4 owners ditched the ditchfinders at the first opportunity. Weirdly, and this may just be pure bad luck, those things attracted punctures remarkably frequently.

[andy-integrale]

Yep, I haven't got a frame of reference either. I've not had the car too long, but I certainly have not had any issues with traction, cornering or braking.

Truth is, it's blindingly quick, and so I am only just starting to get accustomed to it.

It's just a nagging feeling that it might be even better on Michelins.... I don't know how or why it would be, nor do I think there is any real headroom for improvement, so I certainly won't rush to move away from what Alpina recommend.

[Marc 76]

I've often wondered this very predicament should i ever find myself in the position that i have an Alpina with Pirelli specified as the OE tyre.

In short i've had several sets of different flavoured performance Pirellis over the years and found they invariably gave substandard ride and performance to what was fitted previously and subsequently fitted afterwards; through experience i'm really not a Pirelli fan and quite content to never buy again.

I'd be looking at alternatives (likely Michelin), non run flat but keeping with the (*) marked as approved by BMW.

If it was thought that selling the car on could be a slight issue with non Alpina specified rubber one could remove the Pirellis early and store them for future refitting when it's time to go.

[andy-integrale]

Perhaps, it's just the fact that Alpina want their cars to be able to sit on the Autobahn at 180MPH all day. Doesn't seem to be too much in it.


"The ALPINA engineers, in cooperation with the Pirelli tyre experts, have developed model-specific tyres for both the standard ALPINA DYNAMIC 19" cast wheels* and the optional ALPINA CLASSIC 20" forged wheels**. Through the use of materials and construction techniques usually reserved for the ultra-high-performance segment, the tyres offer high safety margins, dynamic grip and ride comfort."

Looking at the EU markings, the Alpina Pirelli V Michelin PS4s seem to have the same score for fuel efficiency, with the Michelin ahead on Wet Grip (Mic=A v Pir=B) and the Pirelli fractionally better on noise (Pir=70db v MIC=71db)

Food for thought. I hope I get a few more miles out of what's on before having to make a decision!

[Grumpyjohn1957]

Can’t comment on tyres other than the PZero fitted to this car. All I can say is wet or dry they perform admirably. On the road I’m covering 20k + a year, I’ve both “tracked” the car and completed a couple of high performance driving/handling courses on them. The grip at the limit is astounding, even in wet conditions, the predictability when letting go is excellent and very linear. With the DSC off all hell breaks loose under full throttle. Wiggle, squiggle, spinning, side sliding and smoking. All very controllable. At 70’c they don’t seem to bubble or break up, they simply become stickely adhesive. I’m stunned by how good for a summer road tyre they are in extremis. Even in snow they work better than expected but will “crab” on icy mornings till above 5’c. On the open road they must contribute to the B5s magic carpet ride. Fuel economy is good but can be noisy on certain surfaces as can any tyre I suppose. If I had any doubt about them I’d try something different, I don’t so haven’t.
One thing though, they are very sensitive to pressures. After months of experiment I eventually settled on 2.8 bar stone cold unless loaded or planning long Mway distances. Half a bar or more significantly effects the ride, traction and braking.
Sytner recommended 3.2 bar which is worth an extra mpg or so but I find the ride firms up too much as they warm. Running pressures at 3.2 cold will quickly rise to 3.5 bar + depending on the ambient when in use.
Before you ditch them for an alternative play with the pressures and see if you can find tyre nirvana.
Be really interested to know the result if you do decide to go with another brand. An expensive choice!

[andy-integrale]

Thanks, John, that's great information.

[Marc 76]

I can confirm mind bending levels of grip in John's B5 having been lucky enough to experience a demonstration on track...
(although my personal opinion of Pirelli tyres remains unchanged, i guess it shows the capability of the machine!)

[Jonnywishbone]

Another pair of tyres need replacing! This time the two on the front axle because the NS tyre has a bulge, no doubt from a pothole. The OS has 4mm left so not appropriate to keep it in-situ.

I have reflected on my driving style, but two punctures and one instance of irreparable sidewall damage in less than 12 months follows more than a decade of not having one (and I drive half as many miles as I used to).

For the first time, I’m having a bit of difficulty sourcing them from the usual suspects and prices have gone up too. Waiting for a quote from Sytner who can order them, but I’ve been warned to rustle up a tub of Vaseline.

I’m tempted to switch to Michelins when I need to replace all four (assuming, against evidence to the contrary, that I don’t get another puncture within 10000 miles) for practical rather than dynamic considerations.

EDIT to add, for the benefit of any owners who may read this out of necessity in future, that I just had a look at Camskill who, according to their website, have the tyres in stock for a phenomenal price of £230.

[Rob Hardman UK]

Hi,

Thanks very much for all the information.

Please could you post the link to the tyre website you mentioned doing tyres for £230?

Thanks again Rob

[big blue]

Slightly different angle from me as it refers to my G20 D3s, but having done 27k, the rears are now in need of replacement. This would be the third set of tyres on the rear. The first 2 have been OEM recommended 20 inch Pirelli "ALP" tyres which means that they have not lasted at all, covering around 13k each which is nothing like what I was getting in earlier generations/versions with Michelins. I appreciate that the F30 and G20 are differing generations and geometry, etc, but my vote would go for Michelins as they have lasted longer historically. In the past I have had over 20k out of Michelins.

So unless there is a stock issue on alternatives I wont be going for Pirelli again and will be trying an alternative.

If anyone else has any recommendations that would be great.

[Marc 76]

Please could you post the link to the tyre website you mentioned doing tyres for £230?

https://www.camskill.co.uk/

I have sourced tyres from these many times, and done a couple of returns without issue. Not the finest website but great supplier.